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  • Eric Swenson

Creating Leadership Presence

So let's talk a little bit about creating presence. And creating presence doesn't mean acting like a jerk. It means your self awareness. And a couple other things. So I want to talk about this. And I want to talk about what it broadly means and then how you can apply it to your own leadership style. So first of all, I wanted to show this, because for no other reason is I showed it last month in the workshop. And everybody seemed to like it. So I thought I just added it. And again, I might continue to do that just for fun. All right. So my definition of presence is awareness that you're always on stage. Several years ago, I was I did a employee engagement survey for a client was a law firm. And one person wrote, I know it's going to be a good day when the managing partner is walking down the hallway. And he's humming. And I talked to the managing partner because I had no idea they knew I was humming, like they're watching you all the time. And, and one of the reasons zoom stresses us out so much, is because we're always on stage. People are always watching us. There's never a time where in a phone call or an email, you can do your hair, you can eat something, you can pick your nose, nobody cares. But when you're on TV, it accelerates. I love there's nothing more I love in the world, then to get up in front of a group of people and do a workshop live. And for most of you, you've seen me up in the conference room doing those. I love that six and a half hours. By the time I get home, I'm ready for 12 hours of sleep. And somebody said, Well, why do you like it so much if it just exhausts you, and exhaust me because I'm always on stage. Everybody's looking at me and all those other things. And you got to know it. When you're having a bad day. Everybody knows it. When you're having a good day, everybody knows, when you're in a bad mood, good mood doesn't matter. So leadership presence is knowing you're always on stage. It's a hard thing to understand. But when you're the leader, people are looking at you. And they're looking at you for cues on how they respond. So what is it, I think it's also the ability to take command of a room and then be a leader in various audiences. So a leader doesn't mean you're controlling things by later means if you're in a room of your board members, or a leadership role, or the ELT, what you're doing in those cases, is you have an idea. You're making a statement, you're not a wallflower. You talk about the things that you want to talk about, you're not afraid. A leader is one who says here's what I think here's where I stand, here's what I believe, and they're comfortable doing it regardless of the audience. So sharing your thinking and opinion with confidence. Owning a communication style, I will talk about communication in a minute. That is both persuasive and impactful for people.

And thenyour poise Your Grace. How do you look when things go wrong? How do you react? Do you freak out? Do you cry? Do you do something else? How do you handle things? Um, some secrets I did in some research Simon Sinek who as you guys know I really like a lot people don't buy what they What you do they buy why you do it. So if you talk about what you believe you're going to attract those who believe what you believe. So when Rick starts talking about culture, and he talks about success, and for years we've had the CBC values, you live those people are going to buy into that with candidates, new employees and existing employees. focus on creating opportunities. Be present, when somebody is talking to you don't start, this is one of the hardest things right now about working in front of a computer all the time. Have you ever been on the phone with somebody and you know that they're typing on the computer? You can't hear it, but you just know it. They're distracted. And you ask a question that like, what, what? They're not paying attention. One of the things I heard a lot from people who know Bill Clinton, when he was president, when he talked to you one on one, it was like, you're the only person in the room. And some friends of mine would say, that's really unusual for a politician at a party, or a cocktail party or something like that. Most politicians will talk to you, but they're looking over your shoulder, trying to see who's where, who, what person is more important that they need to talk to you than you. But Clinton would look you in the eye be present. Nothing else matters except for the person you're talking to. situational awareness, which goes with emotional intelligence. Using power wisely, you don't need to bludgeon people, every single person who works for you knows who's the bosses, you don't have to lord it over them. And I happen to think and leadership decency is just as important as anything else. I want people who work for me who I work for to be decent, good people. So on page six of your workbook that I know you all have, based on kind of that brief description. What person what leader? Do you know, personally, personally or not? It doesn't have to be somebody that CBC can be somebody you used to work for, can be somebody you don't know, has a compelling leadership presence.

And then on page seven, how come outcome? What behaviors do they engage in? What is their communication style? Like? And how do people react to those people? You've heard me a lot over the last year express my admiration for jacinda ardern, who's the Prime Minister of New Zealand, and she communicates, I've watched her you know, it's always in front of a camera, so I have to be careful. speeches. I've seen her one on one talking with people. I've seen her on her Facebook Live, and all the different ways. She is a master of communication. And people eat it up because she tells him everything she knows. She's She's ultimately transparent. And people respond to that. People don't respond well if they think somebody is hiding something from them. But that's somebody right now, who I really admire for those reasons. So what it is about that person that makes you like their leadership presence? What is their communication style, like? And how do people react to those leaders?

Not easy is it?

And one thing, whether I've liked the boss I've worked for or not, I've always tried to learn one thing or two things from any of them. I think you can work, you know, you can learn just as much from a crappy boss as you can from a great boss sometimes. Maybe not in the moment. But overall. So that's great. Thank you guys. Let's talk about this whole leadership presence thing. Maria, I will be talking about auto club people, but just vaguely, and they're probably long dead before you started working there. So don't worry about it too much. I can't tell you how many people let ego get in the way of being good leaders. Everybody, I'll say it again. Everybody knows you're the boss, everybody does, you do not have to lord it over them. You do not have to do this. And what you try to do is find this balance of humble leadership, but confident leadership. And it's the thing you always have to do. capability versus bravado. And the problem is, so many bosses want to take credit for everything. That's not the way you do it. In the real world. If you let your people take credit for everything, it reflects on you even in a better way. The best leaders I see are completely comfortable in their world. They wear it like a glove. They're not ill at ease. They don't get riled. They just are comfortable. Communication again, listening and talking, which do you think I would recommend you do more of talking or listening as a leader? Don't go all at once again. Thank you. Yes. That means asking great questions. You don't have to pretend like you know all the answers, because we don't. But ask great questions. People love being asked questions. I am not very good at this, I have to admit. But really good leaders don't just rely on what they do. They ask for feedback. What's going well, what's not going well? Everything. It's one of the reasons I try to send out a survey every third workshop or so just to see what's going well, what you don't like, what I can be doing better and things like that. But asking for people always be learning. And then it's human nature to want to be liked. If If I hear somebody say, Well, you know, I don't need to be liked by anybody. I don't care if anybody likes me or not. That's the very definition of pathological. Okay, we have a human need to be liked. And so there's a difference between people liking you, and people wanting to work for you. When you're a leader, people will tell you what they think you want to hear. So you'll never really know, they can be nice to your face and bad mouthing around everybody else. But really, the bottom line is people want to work for you. Whether they like you or not, most of the time that to go hand in hand, but you should start off that way. Okay. Um, so over the years, I've been adding more and more things to this, and it's a little unwieldy. And I found out later that I was duplicating one line. So sorry about that, but we'll go through it. Here's a model for leadership presence. And this is a little bit overwhelming. So we'll take it in sections. But the top four quadrants are from a brilliant book that was first written in 2003, updated last year called managing people. The reason I know it was a brilliant book is a net because I wrote it. Thank you. Thank you. And that was a perfect time don't take so long Yes. And for the most important components of managing people are a vision, identifying a style of commitment, and the understanding of past present future. And we'll talk about these in a second.

You can be the smartest person in the room, you can be the hardest working person in the room, you can be the most educated person in the room. But if you cannot communicate well, you will fail as a leader. If I show you a list of leaders over the last 100 years, almost every single failure, we can point out to be a bad communicator. Almost every single one, great communicators succeed. So if you don't have the ability to communicate, you are going to die. So the top two thirds of this from communicator on up, that is a given, this is what you need to succeed as a leader, to have the presence in order to succeed you communication, vision, style, commitment, and past president future, I understand. That's what you need to do, everybody needs to have those things. Now, you can modify those things from the bottom third. And we'll talk about how you do that, with your level of formality. And this is who you are, or you can develop to be your demeanor, your nonverbal, which is a heck of a lot harder to do on zoom that is anywhere else, your preferred methods of communication, and your use of status, how you use power, how do you lord it over. So going to the next page. And by the way, in your workbook, there is a model that almost does exactly the same thing. It's just in a portrait format. And this is in a landscape portrait format. So let's talk about this. First of all, vision. To me, a person with vision isn't predicting the future. That is that is nonsense that is for people will charge you $30 to read your poem. But a vision means they know where they want to go. They will know where they want to go. They know where their department wants to go, their company wants to go. They know who can help them get there. They know why it's important. They inspire faith in others because they have those things. They are a never ending learner. It used to be that we stopped learning stuff at like age 32. If you stop learning stuff today, at age 32, you will be obsolete at age 35. I am 58 I have to spend about 10 hours a month learning stuff Otherwise, I will be obsolete. It has to be done. You have to be a never ending learner. That is endless curiosity. You have to be emotionally intelligent, you have to read the room, you have to know what matters. I know percent well not precisely because it's been hard of last year. But in when we're all in a room together, I can tell you who I can tease, or I can't tease who I need to prop up where I need to wake up. Ubaldo mostly all of those at any given time. The next area is style. great leaders are transparent. Okay. This is the hardest thing. I'm trying to get organizations to shift from an era where everything is kept close to everything is open. If people are going to help you get you where you need to be, they need to know what it is that's going on. Whether that's salary or financial or things going bad, or things going well. Great leaders today are humble. They never used to be humble. People need to be and by the way, we get humbled all the time, don't wait, we get called on our mistakes. things don't go well. I've told you some of the most humbling experiences, I had a great recession of 2009. And 70% of my revenue went away the first year and another 70% the second year. If that person humble you, nothing will humble you. I guarantee you. But it's important to be humble and be transparent about that. Because if you ask me to point to what transformed me the most into who I am today, it's probably that 18 month experience, nothing else mattered more. Leaders are good leaders are consistent. They give you a bright line and they say here's what's gonna make me mad. Here's what's gonna make me happy. People know what the line is. If you're mysterious, and you move that line all the time people don't know where they're going. authentic. Don't be a phony. I think it is essential for today's leader to personify integrity. And the reason I put personifies integrity is you can say all the time Well, I have I have integrity. But that means the first time somebody violates one of your values, they have to go. If you keep that person, then you can tell me your integrity. You have integrity all the time, but you don't. You don't practice what you preach. And then empathy If this last year has taught us anything, it is, as leaders, we need to be empathetic to people understand them and be empathetic.

You have a passion for the mission of the organization, you believe in it, and you believe in the organization. I don't know a way of being phony about this. Everybody knows if, as a leader, if you're burned out, or you don't have that passion for the mission, it's likely not like you can hide it. People have often said, How do you not get nervous getting in front of a room of 1000 people and giving a public speech? And the answer is, I love it. And I love hearing the sound of my own voice, obviously, as you guys know, but I love doing that. And I don't think you can be great at anything, unless you love it, unless you love what you're doing. And the times in my career, where I have doubted, the company I worked for both times weren't times I left. You believe in others, you have a commitment to the success of the people around you. Because those are the people who are going to help you get to you to where you need to be your personal values aligned with the company values. You have credibility. Now, I told you earlier that experience is overrated, but credibility is it. So what is credibility? Well, that as your background, that is your education, it is your level of success. Um, as you know, I happen to like hockey a lot. So when a player comes and gets traded, and that player was a really good player for the New York Rangers, all the other players are going to appreciate that person as a leader, because they have credibility. They've won a Stanley Cup Championship, they've done something incredible. It's not just that they've been there for a long time that they bring something to the table. That's called credibility. A great leader is a talent scout, they can identify potentially great employees, and they develop people into great employees. By the way, I'm starting to believe that the development of talent is one of the hardest things for managers to do. And then they're resilient. When things go bad. They find a way of making it work. Then finally, the fourth tier is the understanding of past present future. They're positive. I've seen this be now Coronavirus, was unique. None of us had ever seen anything like that before. But I've gone through four recessions and one depression or mild depression in my career, I've all of those things. I'm positive, because I've dealt with it before I know it can be done again, agile and open minded, that you can take these curves in life and in business and figure out a way of making it work. radiates command, the great leaders, everybody knows that you're the they're the boss, but they don't you don't lord it over them. You're in charge. That means also you take responsibility for when things don't go as well either. Values driven. If you know what your values are, every decision you make in life is easy. If you're crystal clear on your values, there's never a difficult decision. People want leaders who are problem solvers, especially your best employees, where you don't have to deal with them that much, you know, you can kind of let them up. They're looking for somebody as a boss to be a problem solver. And then finally, this is where I duplicated a little bit throughout their entire career. They stand for all the values that we've talked about before they're credible throughout, in every area. Nobody's perfect. But these are the things that I think are universal for great leaders. All right, now, let's talk about the next step, which is you can be all of those things. If you can't communicate, you've had it. And that means you communicate well, one on one, it means one to group it means in writing because we send so many slack messages, emails, text, you have to be a good writer, I find that a lot of leaders aren't really great writers. That's a problem. Know that communication is the key to success and leadership. And then let's talk now about how those things can impact you individually. So what I'd like you to do, here somewhere I know it is

Let's talk about this first one that can impact you which is level of formality. Okay, then we'll talk about demeanor, nonverbal communication preferred methods of communication and use of status. So, one of the five ways you act as a leader is your level of formality. So formality is the drive to conform to rules and structure. Are you a rules follower or a rules? breaker. Here's my first AAA story Miranda. So 30 years ago, and I hate to say it was that long ago, but it's 30 years, I was in the corporate office and they had a corporate cafeteria, there was an unwritten rule that everybody from manager on up had to wear a jacket, which tells you the time because about one out of every 20 managers was a woman back then you had to wear a jacket. And I decided to be a rule breaker. So my first day as a manager, I walked in and a shirt and tie. And people read what running up to me said, What are you doing? Put on your jacket? That's formal. When I worked for paychecks, you were required to wear a suit 24? Seven, you're required to wear a coat and tie on a plane, in case anybody said, Who do you work for? You weren't dressed as a slob. So you had to wear a suit all the time. That's formality, being removed and distant from people is formal. So on page nine, are you a low formality leader? Or are you a high formality leader? The rules are there for a reason. Or it's my role to say as long as the job gets done, it's okay. So underneath it, underneath it says at our company, what are some examples where you have you believe there's a lot of high formality or a lot of low formality at CBC, you can just scribble down a couple, we're not going to be sharing these, you can write them down without any reason to worry that anybody's going to pick on you. And then on the last slide, that's supposed to be a scale of one to 10, where it says my level of formality. So on the far left would be are you a completely informal leader? Or are you an extremely formal leader? And then underneath that, is CBC have an expectation of formality? Is it extremely informal? With no rules? That's not the case, by the way, in case you needed it? Or is it extremely formal? So just take a minute. In the last 15 years or so I've probably worked with 300 companies. I would say you guys rank in terms of formality between about a five and a six, maybe a five to a seven. And I would think one of the reasons it's it's formal is because there's so many financial laws, you have to comply with, there's certain things you have to follow rules. There's no freewheeling it. Um, there are other areas that I don't think you guys have a lot of rules. I think that's kind of cool. But I'd be curious. And if you want to raise your hand or say anything, like what is your expectation of formality at CBC? Or what are some examples of lower high formality that you see at CBC? You know, I'm going to call on first, I'm going to call on the chief risk officer first, she can set the tone.

How did I know that I unmuted myself. I'm gonna give him an example of low formality only because I've heard this recently, from three, at least three new hires that have come in there. They've all come from larger organizations, and they are all really amazed. And that is their wording that they have access to the executive leadership team. And that is incredibly, incredibly informal in that regard. Because again, I've had several say, Oh, my gosh, I work for someone who worked for someone and I can't even tell you the name of the VP, they would have never talked to me.

Yes. No, you're exactly right. I also think that is. I think that is also unique to smaller companies as opposed to larger organizations. Like Maria since now, Maria is my best friend since she worked for AAA. Going from a large organization, which necessarily has tons of layers of management, and tons of rules because they have to, a lot of people have a hard time adjusting to a smaller company, not only because there's fewer rules, there's fewer strata of leadership, but at a smaller business. You guys are expected to do more, make more decisions. Take more accountability. You know, the phone was ringing from my wife's conference call and she works for Union Bank. And she has a team of 12 to do what probably two of you at CBC do. And so what happens is, a lot of people come in and they're there, it's harder to make decisions. It's harder to do this stuff. Because it's, you will every person at a smaller company counts. And a large company with 20,000 employees, it's a different scenario. Okay, what I worry about is, if your level of formality is, let's say, a one on the most casual person in the world, and you're working for a seven or an eight, there's going to be a clash sooner or later. Or you're going to need to adopt ways to become more of a formal leader. be okay with that. Any questions? All right. So let's move on. The next one is demeanor and demeanor is the way you conduct yourself as a leader as a person. So somebody who is a calm leader is somebody who's relaxed, has jokes tells jokes, encourages fun, encourages a casual atmosphere. They are friendly. I've worked for a number of years with COO of major country clubs Riviera Country Club is now at a huge club in Florida. And he's east coast. He calls everybody Mr. I've known this guy and work with him and then some of the toughest situations of all time. And he picks up the phone. Mr. Swenson, how are you? I don't have a choice. I'm like fine, Mr. Emery. How are you? I can't call him dawn after he starts that stuff off. And that's just the way he does it. And people around him calling us he doesn't demand this in terms of You owe me respect. That's just he thinks that's nice. That is a formal, more intense leader. So how do you comport yourself? If I asked the people to work for you? Would they say, Angela is calm, cool and collected? 24? Seven? Would they say? No? She's very serious. She never jokes. She's this quite this person? Or is it someplace in the middle, which I suspect it is Angela? What's your level of demeanor? One of the most effective leaders I know, as you're writing this down, is a gentleman who founded and is in charge of about 100 employee, CPA firm. And he is Mercurial you never know what's going to set him off. And people who are afraid like, I don't, I don't know what he's gonna say next. He loves that. He absolutely loves that. It makes everybody around him crazy. But he makes an awful lot of money has been really successful. It's not my idea of a dream scenario. So again, are you that calm, friendly, fun manager? Or are you more serious, or high intensity? Some of you, and this is just observing in workshops in on this. So I can't even get puppies to make you guys smile. Then I got you bald. Oh, I can't get him to take that, that smile off his face. Or he's laughing at all my jokes, but I don't care. I like him. And I like the way he does things. Because he's smiling. It's easy to understand what's going on? Does that carry over into your branch you bought? Does it do people know? So what's your level of demeanor? Next one, nonverbal. Um, it's really interesting. As I think about nonverbal communication, I think about how also we all behave on zoom. And some of you just sit here the whole time like this. And I'm so impressed. Because I'm waving my arms. I'm looking at what's supposed to come next. I'm doing all this other stuff. I'm trying to see what Landis is doing because he always has something interesting in his background. The strategic plan I'm talking about, and I'm all over the place and other like this anything get Katie brown upset? I don't think so. Or she does. She takes it out on her husband or a kid or something along those lines. If you have a dog, what Katie has been, okay, that poor guy.

I know everybody, everybody. By the way. Everybody says that about my wife. She's so nice and calm and sweet. Am I you? Yeah, she waits till she gets home. Then she takes it on her husband. So, but nonverbal says as much about you as anything else. It's harder to do on. It's harder to do on zoom. But the reason I say that is because all I'm doing is seeing your face. But I'm not seeing if your arms are folded. If you're leaning back, or you're leaning in. But that's how people judge you. It's a process you are sending messages with this. What is the message you're sending? So I worked for a guy at paychecks. And his name was Rocco muratore. Okay, I kid you not, his name was Rocco. And you would think he's as big expressive Italian guy. And he's not. He was this short, small, non expressive Italian guy. And I remember interviewing with him, and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with us. This isn't 2000 to one. And I couldn't figure out why I didn't do well. And then over the course of time, he was the senior manager. And I was working for him. I watched him interview. And he deliberately did that he deliberately asked a question and not show anything. Funny finally said, What are you doing? He said, I don't want to send out any verbal messages. I want them to figure me out. Now, he didn't manage like that. But he interviewed like that. And that was really hard. Some people Scott, you're you like that? I don't know. All I see. Is you walking off into the sunset? Man, I don't know if there's anything else to know the way though, Eric, the way that I looked at it is if they were intimidated by me during an interview, they would never be able to work for me. No, I sometimes, you know, kind of be a hard ass and see how they respond. And that tells me a lot about how they work under pressure and work for me. You know, and it's true. And it shows them how are they dealing with the unknown, because you're throwing them a curveball by acting like that. You know, that's not a bad thing. One thing I do, Scott in interviews, if I like that person, I will have them interview with somebody who's worked for me for like 10 years. And the principal thing is for them to let that candidate know. Here's what it's like working for Eric, here's the good, the bad, the ugly. Here's what drives me crazy. If this drives you crazy, you can't do it. You know, I will tell my employees tell them the truth. Because they're not going to get it from me. So do you look people in the eye at all times? Are you looking down? One of the hardest things on zoom is right, I'm looking at notes. I'm looking at my screen, I'm looking What's next? I got Tiffany texting me when I'm scrolling up. And I'm trying to look into the camera. At the same time. It's not very easy. And the same thing with you guys. So do you look people in the eye? Do you smile? Are you expressive? What does your nonverbal cues say about you as later? Are you the person who some hums when you walk down the hallway? What is your level of nonverbal communication? And then communication preferences. We've talked about this, but it was a long time ago. Everybody is different on how they like to give and receive communication. Do you prefer a phone call? Do you prefer an email? Do you prefer a text or internal like a slacker jabber or any of those other things? How do you like giving communication? I forgot one thing and this Coronavirus era in person. It probably is a combination of things. Right? I hope that if you're giving bad news to somebody, you do it in person and you don't give them an email. If you're unhappy with their performance, you're telling them or picking up the phone. But if you're communicating information that you need to get out to four or five different people, that's an email. If it's urgent, it's a text or something like that. But I want to make sure that people who work with you know that I spent a lot of time as a leader, just hoping that people would understand that. Now we have to write it out. Okay, if you need Eric, urgently, that's the time to text him. But if he's on vacation, enjoying something if you texted me, I'll kill you. So so for me a text is better being an emergency. If it's something for me to do, or something for me to think about send me an email. It was something that needs input phone. But those are the different types of things. Do you have those types of things? And on page 12, I'm interested to see not only your preferred methods of communication, but the amount of availability you have. So on a scale of one to 10, that should have been a one to 10 is I'm available for you anytime you can call me anytime day or night.

Or is it? Only between these hours? Or the best time to get put in touch with me is the morning or the afternoon? Are you 24? Seven? Does your company does CBC expects you to be available at that level. If you're a type of person who only wants to be available, let's say from nine to five, and you're working for a company that's 24 seven, it's a big issue. Tomorrow I'll be giving this workshop to a client that is a restaurant chain. It's a whole different world. I can't pick up the phone and call any of them until 11 o'clock because they were all up until two o'clock in the morning running their restaurants or you know the groups of restaurants that they That's a different way of doing it. And they all want to be texted. Me, I don't want to be texting. So the time the availability, how often are you needed? Okay? And then finally, use of status? Are you autocratic? Or you democratic? Do you say you're going to do it my way? Or else? Or do you prefer collaborating, where you might be the first among equals? Now, without going into too much political detail, over the last few years in the White House over the last 20, you can tell who is more of an autocratic leader and more of a democratic leader, who is more inclusive and more and people who are Do as I say, because I'm those types of things. What are you? And since he's not here, let's pick on him. What about Rick? Now all of you don't work for him every day. But all of you work for him. Ultimately, you don't see him every day. At what point? Does he stop being democratic and stop being more autocratic? Or is his style as as laconic as I've always thought it is. He's just kind of a low key guy. He wants what he wants.

And that's on page 13. of your workbook. Everybody, okay. All right. So on page 14, developing your leadership presence. So I'd like you to fill this out. We're not going to do a breakout for this. But one time, in your career that you were really proud to be a leader. This is always a scary question for me to ask people. And the reason is, somebody wants compared to buying a boat. The greatest day you ever have as a boat owner is the day you buy the boat. The second greatest day is the day you sell the boat. So I remember being elected President of this nonprofit organization that I was a little surprised it was an election. And it was the greatest thing of all time. And I was working 35 hours a year at that 35 hours a week at the nonprofit. So the greatest day I ever became a leader was when I was elected leader, that nonprofit, the second greatest day was the day that I gave up that title after a year when you were proud. second line, three reasons why somebody would follow you.

By the way, I didn't directly address this, but I want to a good reason somebody would follow you as if you're a good teacher. I put that down as a talent developer. But people are looking to learn. And they're looking for bosses who can coach and mentor and teach. What is one skill you think you need to develop to elevate your ability to lead?

And then finally, and we're going to do a poll on this too. I'm not counting in the preferred communication style, because it's too hard to do. But the poll question is going to be which area of those presents formality demeanor nonverbal use of status? Do you think you need to intentionally work on in order to get better? And it may be that you never realize you were really that weak at it, or maybe it's not a weakness, but you need to be more closely in line with the expectations of cbcs. So for example, if you're a classic rule breaker and there's enough rules at CDC, you probably need to change that. If you are a smart ass 24 seven and that's not the culture at CDC, you probably want to change that.

The one piece of advice I'd give, if you're one of the people who put non verbal is to do it with intention, too often. It's, I'm doing this and I don't realize it. What is this? So keep an eye on that. Or every once in a while, just remind yourself, what is my appearance saying to people? What is my posture saying to people? What are my hand gestures doing to be? Okay? Am I smiling enough? Am I looking people in the eye? What have you with level of formality? The hardest thing in the world is to separate friendship from leadership. It is why the single hardest thing in leadership is to be promoted from one of a group of peers, to the leader of peers, that is the single hardest thing to do in leadership, because you have to separate yourself from them in a way, and it's hard, and most of the way you can do that is over a period of time you get used to it. So those are really good answers. Thank you. Does anybody have any questions? Is everybody okay with that? Okay, good. Um, now, the last thing is being present. And I mentioned this before, and I mentioned, President Clinton who just stared you right in the eye, and you're the only person in the room some ways you can be present as a leader, which will reflect the presence that you need as a leader. What's taking place right now? Right, what is going on? Are you aware of everything that's going on? Are you aware of the situation that you're encountering? And then do what's appropriate. Too many of us have a style that is predicated on Well, I've always been good at this. Therefore, I'm always going to be good at that. That is not true. Don't think about the things you used to be successful at. By the same token, free yourself from past failures. Too often people are haunted by failures. Don't let that guide you. You have to clear your mind. Today is the day. It's not yesterday, it's tomorrow. So each day in each interaction is your opportunity for a fresh start. Anytime there's a new opportunity, it is not a challenge, it's an opportunity for excitement. It can get overburdening it can be burnout. But as a leader, you can't behave that way you have to be excited about it. everything that has happened is a blessing.

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